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User talk:Toctheyounger
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the User:Toctheyounger page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 18:24, August 18, 2015 (UTC) Welcome again Hi Toc, thanks for chipping in. Are you currently reading RotCG? Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 18:37, August 18, 2015 (UTC) Flattery... ...will get you everywhere - is one of the standard phrases my other half uses, lol. Thank you very much for your positive feedback :) Great that you decided to register - it's good to be able to think of contributors as people, rather than numbers. Sounds like you have been lurking for a while, so you probably know most of the other regulars here. Do pop in to Dujek's Command Tent and add your name to the current rota :) See you around! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 19:08, August 18, 2015 (UTC) tense... ... as in past tense is what is used for all articles apart from the book pages and the chapter summaries, Toc. I didn't realize either when I first started editing. Just so you know why I am undoing your diligent efforts on that point ;) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:18, August 18, 2015 (UTC) Just realized it Well, I'll be damned... Won't happen again. Oh, and don't worry about the editing my edits. i'll have to keep that in mind from now onwards. Thanks for letting me know. ref edits I still remember the first time I read about Rillish going over the edge! Noooo...! I have made a few changes to the Bakune page to adjust your edits to the standard Wiki lay-out. Great to see someone giving Stonewielder a bit of TLC. With ArchieVist doing DP's for Some of the other novels, Esslemont is beginning to look a lot better on the Wiki! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:54, August 18, 2015 (UTC) Rillish You have no idea what kind of agony i was in while I didn't know he was still alive. I thought ICE had been taken by the SE fever and started killing the persons(s) I wanted to live most. I really considered firing an email reprimanding ICE for soing that until I finsihed the book. I just checked the edits. Thanks for that. I liked most of ICE's books but since I've only re read ICE's books, thats what I want to focus on right now. I'll start my main series re read soon and hopefully work in conjunction with you guys to make this wikia even better. Toctheyounger (talk) 21:07, August 18, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, he was my favourite character as well... still, it was all the better then to find out he had survived and got his quiet life at last! :A couple of things as we're talking editing... in print, the name of ships in English are always given in italics... again something I learned whilst editing here. When you create a new page, add a 'Notes and References' section to each page and at least one category. If you go into edit mode for the Bakune page, you should be able to see what I changed. Also, you may want to make sentences a bit shorter. I am trying to encourage referencing on the Wiki. The aim is to eventually have source references for everything and, ideally, a reference at the end of a sentence would apply to the entire sentence. It will make things easier in the long run. :Oh, and I forgot to warn you that editing is addictive... in fact, the word should probably be edi©tive :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 21:13, August 18, 2015 (UTC) :Gotcha. Thanks for all that. I'll learn more as I do more. And yeah, you're absolutely right, this thing is really addictive. You want people to understand stuff more. Part of why I admire your work all that much. Thanks again. I think you'll find that your own understanding of the books changes quite a bit because you are constantly looking at, sometimes minute, detail. It will give you a whole new appreciation of the scope of the Malazan world. Talking about referencing... :) ..... if you do fancy adding some... :) .... Take a look at K'rul's page which does have different types of references. Just copy the format that suits you. In an ideal world, everyone would add as well which type od edition they have and the page number, however, I am pretty happy with just the book and chapter. It helps enormously when people are using the Wiki if they can cross reference with the books. Plus, the better referenced the Wiki is, the more it can be taken seriously as a source in itself. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 08:18, August 19, 2015 (UTC) Hello, Toctheyounger I'm aimzz, the junior admin. I'm so glad you signed up. You've hit the ground running, taking up an area that's been needing a lot of attention. I'm especially glad you're adding references to your entries. Most contributers don't realize how important it is to back up what we say. Just to make the refs a little easier, there's no need to include info such as the book number or the chapter name. For example, 'Night of Knives Chapter 5, Feints and Fates' is just as accurate if you say 'Night of Knives, Chapter 5 ' 'Return of the Crimson Guard, Book Three, Chapter II' is as accurate as 'Return of the Crimson Guard, Chapter II' You are doing a great job. If you need any help, Egwene is the best resource, but you can always check with me as a backup. Have a great morning (or evening, depending on where you are) :) --------------- Ach! Forget to sign! aimzzz (talk) 12:08, August 19, 2015 (UTC) Great to hear from you aimzzz, and thanks for the positive feedback. I'm working through an ICE re read, so I'm primarily going to edit that part. I'm waiting for my main series to arrive, whence I will start on that part. About the references, I just took a few hints from Egwene, so because I'm new at it, I'm still a bit rough on the edges. Thanks for the pointers. Oh and its afternoon here :) Toctheyounger (talk) 12:13, August 19, 2015 (UTC)Toctheyounger Hello again Great to see you catching the editing bug *grin* Here's a little bit more feedback to your edits... Thank you for adding references - I can't tell you how happy that makes me. I'd rather have short contributions with references then long ones with none. I see Aimzzz has already give you the heads-up about the formatting... When I said book, I meant as in 'Return of the Crimson Guard' for example, not which book within the book. Sorry about giving you extra work there *oophs** Great to see new pages as well - we have now broken the 2900 mark! When you write an article, try and keep it impersonal - for example, I have taken out the '(not particular imaginative)' bit from the Temper page as it seems to be a personal observation. It is appropriate to use judgmental or non-objective descriptions like 'the best' if they are used in the book. If so, add 'so and so thought of X as...' and add the reference. Oh, and I don't know if you have used the phrase yet... but try and avoid 'it was revealed' - 'we discovered' etc... it's a bit of a personal bug-bear with me, lol. Everything we enter could be classed as having been revealed/discovered. Use sparingly!!! I have changed a few things to bring your edits in line with the format of the rest of the Wiki... for example, the page name at the beginning of the article gets bolded. If you look at the differences in Recent Changes, it will give you some guidelines for other edits of the kind. Don't be afraid to correct the corrections. The Wiki relies on all of us tweaking until we get the perfect result for the user :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 09:18, August 20, 2015 (UTC) Hello again, Egwene, About the references, I thought it best to be comprehensive. I'll keep the format in mind from now on though. I agree about the Temper part. I thought it as something of a personal observation, but I agreed with it, so I left it there. I just edited the details part after that intro thing because I thought the page could use more details. I agree that this wikia should be impersonal and should state the facts without personal remarks. And about "the best" part, I've had far too many conversations with people about best swordsman, most intelligent, best strategist et al, and one thing I know is that opinions always differ, so I always avoid stating someone is 'the best' or 'the awesome-est' and so forth. Thanks for that name thing, I'll keep it in mind hereforthwith. Oh yeah, everything about the Malazan world has been revealed to us by prophet SE, so I don't like phrases like that either :) Toctheyounger (talk) 10:09, August 20, 2015 (UTC) Wish the prophet WOULD reveal a few more things, lol. I am hoping that the duo will bring out a printed Malaz Encyclopedia sometime with lots of odd bits of hitherto unknown background story. I have started a discussion in DCT about the order in which we display the info. Check in if you have a moment and add your thoughts. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC) Korelri campaign Do you have the refs for the following section, Toc? Greymane had actually been given a sword by the Stormriders. His aim had been, all along, to bring down the wall that represented a most oppressive religion dedicated to 'The Lady' (a representation of a piece of The Crippled God) using this sword. To this end, Greymane dared talk and understand the enemy (the Stormriders). I thought he first talked to the riders, was then given the sword. I don't remember that the destruction of the wall was his aim all along. It would be great to be able to recap on those bits. Great write-up on the military stuff! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:14, August 20, 2015 (UTC) He did talk to the riders first. I guess I didn't write that clear enough. I'll edit it now. For the second part, I have to clarify that that's an inference. I'll get the reference from where I inferred it. Although that's probably a personal touch (the personal inference part), a lot of information can be inferred. Although if you feel its an illogical inference, please remove it. Oh and I intend to expand the tactics part further. Yours Malazanaically, Toctheyounger (talk) 10:11, August 21, 2015 (UTC) Malazanaically? Sounds like a mixture of Malazan and Maniac, lol! Yes, whenever something is inferred, add the source and something like 'It was inferred that...' to the text so that a user can differentiate between what is in the book and what can be read between the lines. Do use it for extremely well supported theories only though, otherwise it is better to add a section to the bottom of the page headed 'Speculations' or 'Theories'. If you know of a forum thread that discusses the theory, you could add the link for that to the speculation section as well. That way the user can get the background story and make up their own mind if they want to go with the popular thinking or not. Yours, Wu-shing you the best ;) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:57, August 21, 2015 (UTC) Gotcha. The speculation and theories part is a particularly good suggestion. Never got the number on Wu. What is that?, since you so kindly put a word-play on it. Toctheyounger (talk) 12:24, August 21, 2015 (UTC) Enesh Jer Hi Toc, could you double check your copy for the spelling of this one? In mine it is Enesh-jer. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 19:16, August 22, 2015 (UTC) Egwene, you're absolutely right. I was quite under the impression that it was what I had written. Please change the title to Enesh-jer. For some reason I can't do it. Can you also tell me how to do it? Toctheyounger (talk) 20:36, August 22, 2015 (UTC) It maybe an admin only function. I created a page under the correct name and transferred all info across (something you could do). I then deleted the old page (deleting pages is admin only) and checked for pages that linked to the deleted page and changed the one that did. So probably a case of giving an admin a shout if the need for this arises in the future. Also not something to do in a hurry for a page which already has links to tons of other pages. Chasing them all up is not fun. By the way... I don't know either where 'Wu' came from. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:51, August 22, 2015 (UTC) Just a quick hello Hi Toc, haven't seen you around for a few days - hope all is ok! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 12:43, August 25, 2015 (UTC) Hey there, Egwene, I probably forgot to mention that I'm a student, which means quite a bit of activity during week ends and holidays, vacation etc. I'm in the middle of quite a bit of stuff now. But don't worry, I've got some plans for the malazan millitary page and a few for the letherii military page too. I'll try to keep up. Thanks for inquiring. It means a lot to have friends around. Yours, toctheyoungerToctheyounger (talk) 13:32, August 25, 2015 (UTC) Real life... ah, yes... interferes with my editing, too! Good to hear you are well and look forward to your contributions when you can. I prefer it if you edit every now and then rather than overdoing it and facing problems in the real world as a consequence. Take care Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 14:08, August 25, 2015 (UTC) Congrats to you, too Hi Toc, Thanks for the message on reaching 3000. :) You should also give yourself a pat on the back. You're new, but you added to the total and we appreciate your work. The other day I gave you some bad info (well, partly). Still learning... Re. references, when I said not to include the Book number with the Chapter number, I hadn't started the ICE Novels. I'm probably going to tell you more than you want to know, but the bottom line is that it depends on the book. If you aren't interested in the details, feel free to skip or skim the next 2 paragraphs. In an effort to be clear, I'm going to make your eyes glaze over... I'm using book with a lower case "b" to refer to an entire book, and capital "B" Book to refer to Books within a book. (insert wacko smiley). NOTE: Egwene added follow-up @ end *With Erickson's books, there's no need for Book numbers in refs. Erickson used Book numbers, but they didn't affect the Chapter numbers. His Chapter numbers run consecutively through— ex, Book 2, Chapter 12 followed by Book 3, Chapter 13. With that format, there was no point in adding Book numbers to the refs— Chapter 13 is just as accurate as Book 3, Chapter 13. *You were working on ICE Novels, which I just started. They change from book to book. (We'll ignore the Roman numerals for now.) NoK is too short to have Book numbers— no problem there. I got partway into RotCG before realizing that ICE reset to Chapt 1 with every new Book, so, for ex, there are three Chapter 2's. The only other book I have is SW, in which he uses the Erickson system... Book 2, Chapt 8 is followed by Book 3, Chapt 9. If you wondered about what I said the other day, I'm sure you straightened it out with Egwene. Same for the Roman numerals. (pulls hair out) Gaack! I'm quitting. Hope you skipped everything that was too obvious. I just found out there's more to it than I realized a couple of weeks ago. Have a great morning (afternoon)! aimzzz (talk) 12:08, September 1, 2015 (UTC) :Nope... no sorting out with Egwene - she had forgotten all about the funny numbering, too, LOL. So yes, with the ICE books, for referencing, ideally, we should quote: book title, Book (Book number will do) and Chapter plus, optionally, which edition and page. Probably best to use the roman numerals as well *sigh*. Hey, confusion reigns, as they say ;) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 12:24, September 1, 2015 (UTC) :Far too many good points over there. I'll try to keep them all in mind. I kinda stopped editing for the time being because I'm starting my first re read (puts on cool black glasses) and I'm starting with GoTM which should be here in a few weeks. I'm really eager to start editing the main series. Between my daily work routine and Dresden Files (Dresden is kicking too much ass and is too much like me to forsake him right now), I will start on these projects a few weeks from now. Thanks Aimzzz and Egwene. I'll try to get back to editing soon. :Yours Malazanaically, :Toctheyounger (talk) 17:56, September 3, 2015 (UTC) Grub and Keneb Well, a certain someone did not add any references so I was left to dig around for them. When I came across all this other stuff - seemed a shame not to add it! Glad you are enjoying the re-read - any help with DG would be very welcome. It is not my favourite book, alas, so don't ask why I volunteered to do the Extended DP for it!?! The next chapter summary which will need looking at is 12. The summing up is not yet completed, it needs location or character headings as seen in the previous chapters, current content needs checking for accuracy, some adjustments to spelling/grammar, plus links need adding. Any contributions welcome - and you don't even need to add references *grin* Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:11, September 15, 2015 (UTC) I felt really guilty about the references part, however I really couldn't get my books together at the time. DG has a strange quality, it attracts intensely, then repels you like the whirlwind (hah, puns galore, declares Kruppe, a sure master of his language. Sorry, too much GOTM for me)'''. '''I will keep the references in mind. Toctheyounger (talk) 20:16, September 15, 2015 (UTC) :I know that there is a lot of stuff that can be added from memory and which can be perfectly correct but unfortunately, without the pages there in front of you, there can be small nuances which are missed and which may paint a very different picture. For example, you wrote 'When it (i.e the garrison) was ambushed he and a group of others escaped.' That sentence is only partially accurate as they left the garrison as a full company with refugees and were attacked afterwards on the road and at that point Keneb and a group of others escaped. It may only be a small difference, however, if the next person passes on what you wrote with the same degree of difference... you see my drift. At least when users come across something like that, if there is a reference they can check out these things and be certain to have the correct facts. So, I'll keep on at references and will also re-write stuff if need be. But please, rest-assured, your efforts are still much appreciated and they did form the skeleton on which I build the rest. Every bit helps, as they say. Plus, as you do more editing you begin to see those little details yourself and become just as bad as the rest of us at re-writing everything ten times, lol. There is much to be learned, I am sure wise Kruppe would agree :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 20:29, September 15, 2015 (UTC) :Well, I understand editing information is a risky business when you're doing it from memory. I definitely need to be more careful. And if you become that 'bad', I'm really waiting to get there. Well, I'm really glad we've got more experienced writers having our (amateur writers) backs. Otherwise this wikia would be a comedy of errors. Always appreciate your advice Egwene. Oh and yeah, Kruppe had better be wise :) Toctheyounger (talk) 10:51, September 16, 2015 (UTC) Experienced writers? No, just amateur writers who made those same mistakes in the past and are now passing the batton ;) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:59, September 16, 2015 (UTC) GotM Chapter 4 Great edits, Toc! The eye for detail is growing fast, it seems :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 11:11, September 16, 2015 (UTC) Well, I am on a re read and with the book in my hand, I thought it would be nice to add a few details. Oh yeah, Everytime I look at those 9000+ edits I'm always left in awe, so you are going to have to take up the 'experienced' writer mantle. Just out of curiousity, did you start the wikia (since you've got all those freakishly huge number of edits) ? If you did, that would really be cool. (I don't use the word 'cool' ever, by the way)Toctheyounger (talk) 11:15, September 16, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, I would have thought it pretty cool, too, but I didn't... go to this page and scroll down to Jade Raven's speech, that will tell you more about the history of this Wiki. Also, whilst 9000 may sound huge... probably about 2500 of them are me making my way through from A-Z adding the reference section at the bottom, lol. That is one aspect of the Wiki which I will take credit for... you have to thank me for the constant call for references *evil grin*. But - and it is a big but - without source references, information is only hear-say. Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 11:48, September 16, 2015 (UTC) :Hood's hairy...uhm. I meant Hood's breath, so that's how it is! Yeah Egwene, we get it, references, references, refere... Ah I'm outta here. But those numbers are still impressive. How many years have you been around? And how did you get into the Malazan books? military mages Here are some comments & places you could get info & refs. I'll be able to take a better look at it tonight or tomorrow, but here are some starters-- not exactly organized :p You could add that there were different kinds of military mages: * Cadre mages who worked as a group, combining their skills under the command of a High Mage * High Mage * Squad mages who worked on a more local level, using their individual talents in coordination with the squad. I think there are articles about each type on the Wiki that you can link. If you're lucky, they may have refs so you can get more info. There's a lot of good info in the following parts-- just skim thru sections till you see the parts that pertain: * GotM: find the part in Chapter 2, where Tayschrenn calls the meeting of the mage cadre before the attack on Moon's Spawn @ Pearl & Chapter 3, mages part in the actual battle * MoI, in Ch 23 & 24, skip thru & find the parts about QB & the squad mages, both the planning & the actual battle-- QB is awesome in that part & I think it has some local squad mage action too. (Lol-- it may sound like I have it all at my fingertips, but the truth is that I just happened to be rereading that part last night) As you know, there's a lot more. I just mentioned a couple of good ones I could remember off the top of my head Under 'pre-emptive strikes', you might mention how mages try to take out the mages on the other side. Also they develop tactics to protect themselves. An example is found in the MoI section mentioned above where QB held a meeting with the other mages before the battle against the Seer at Coral. QB split up the mages among the troops so the Seer's mages couldn't wipe them all out in one onslaught of magic. Also since QB could handle so much more than the others, he made himself conspicuous to serve as a lightning rod & protect the others. Hope some of this stuff helps. aimzzz (talk) 19:42, September 17, 2015 (UTC) Thanks a bunch. The MoI reference can be very helpful. I already included the GoTM reference. I'll see what I can add to the article. Thanks again, Toctheyounger (talk) 19:52, September 17, 2015 (UTC) ALSO: When you look through the chapters above, just note down the chapter number for each piece of info you pull out. Then you'll already have the ref to stuff into the brackets... all you need is the chapter number & book title :) aimzzz (talk) 19:56, September 17, 2015 (UTC) Can't tell you how much I appreciate all the suggestions. I'm really feeling out of depth on the mage warfare issue. Its all really spread out over the entire series and there are so many battles that doing a comprehensive piece on this type of warfare is increasingly turning out to be out of my scope, especially since I've read the books only once. Its very nice to know you can rely on someone to give you pointers. Thanks, Toctheyounger (talk) 20:00, September 17, 2015 (UTC) There aren't many overviews like the one you are doing. It could get overwhelming pretty fast. I won't even tell you what I remembered in the last few minutes. Keep in mind that you don't have to cover everything at one time. I strongly recommend pulling a few key points out of everything you've accumulated. Take each point & do a brief description with some examples here & there. More can be added later-- other points and also more detail on existing info. Anything you write now can be expanded over time. Don't be thinking that it's not enough... whatever you do now is more than there was before. Relax! aimzzz (talk) 20:28, September 17, 2015 (UTC) Sample starter outline— you already have the bones of it, with a little rearranging and REFERENCES: 1) Mage warfare or warren warfare * An important arm of Malazan military * It is an adjunct to the armes forces. A war could not be fought through magic and warrens alone. 2)Types of military mages: Cadre mages, Squad mages, High mages 3) Briefly, what do the mages do. What do different levels of mage do. (Suggestion: for now, leave out specific warrens & "flavors". Pick them up later, in round 2) 4) List of important mages & their countries of origin, main talents if availabe (optional for later) 5) Mage & counter-mage. How they try to foil each other. Here you could just say that it happens & fill in specific tactics at a later date. aimzzz (talk) 21:05, September 17, 2015 (UTC) Latest edits Hi Toc, Thanks for the edits on the GotM chapters. As you said... it's all in the details. There is a lot of scope for improvement on that front as many of the chapter summaries, not just those of GotM are currently mostly giving the framework. Obviously, apart from MoI where John has not left a pebble unturned. Had a look at the Military page - looks like you have already implemented some of the excellent advice Aimzzz came up with. I have added a few more details. As you have quite rightly said... referencing something like that is a bit of a nightmare. Hopefully with all of us taking a look at it, the page is going to be factually correct and we'll just have to try and add references to it as and when we come across relevant information. Great to see you have entered DCT for the ongoing staff meetings :) Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 21:12, September 17, 2015 (UTC) Great edits on the military page. I just saw them and I now feel a little more comfortable with the dissemination of information. For some reason, you can strucuure information very well, and you have done that here. I was about to add Beak's name (I had just remembered it this morning) but you had it covered. I also like the way you moved the note down to notes and references section. The Claw thing for countering mages was something that slipped from right under my nose. Oh and do I have to attend the staff meetings? You remember that Sapper squad leader who Coltaine couldn't bring to his staff meetings? I'll leave it at that :) Toctheyounger (talk) 10:03, September 18, 2015 (UTC) :LOL... I'll be sure to send the heavies out to get you should there be an important meeting! Egwene of the Malazan Empire (talk) 10:29, September 18, 2015 (UTC)